tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post5427805950164568697..comments2024-03-27T04:17:21.221-08:00Comments on Deep Cold: Alaska Weather & Climate: Radiation BudgetRickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03946704894714514716noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-21466244422966123222015-10-14T17:48:21.213-08:002015-10-14T17:48:21.213-08:00Thanks Gary. It seems that a simultaneous process...Thanks Gary. It seems that a simultaneous process of observing and learning would be ideal - each experience informing and motivating the other. It's a wonderful world to explore!<br />Richard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313902028896263276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-11725740682621926512015-10-14T17:43:54.197-08:002015-10-14T17:43:54.197-08:00Thanks Brian, I enjoyed putting it together and wa...Thanks Brian, I enjoyed putting it together and was pleasantly surprised when I realized I could obtain a semi-reasonable budget.<br /><br />I'll take a look at the OLR data, thanks for the suggestion. The OLR is top-of-atmosphere... so I'll have to think about how this is related to the longwave fluxes at the surface.<br />Richard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313902028896263276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-50830822825752776292015-10-14T17:33:56.978-08:002015-10-14T17:33:56.978-08:00Eric,
I freely admit that the downward longwave c...Eric,<br /><br />I freely admit that the downward longwave can't actually be constant. It must increase in late summer, as you state, but I'm not sure how to quantify this. I tried tying it to the normal cloud cover, but the problem then is that the clear skies of late winter produce a smaller downwave longwave flux, which leads to net radiation losses even into late February, and that can't be right as we know it is warming up by then. This problem persists even if we assume the snowpack surface temperature is several degrees lower than the air temperature, leading to lower longwave emission. It seems a more sophisticated model would be needed to capture all these effects properly.<br /><br />I will say that the winter longwave balance seems to be strongly constrained because of the lack of shortwave, so the 5344 Wh can't be far off in winter. In high summer I suppose the albedo might be as low as 0.1 or as high as 0.2, so the downward longwave could vary from 5180 to 5686 Wh to keep things in balance.<br />Richard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313902028896263276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-40606913608735529402015-10-14T17:00:12.287-08:002015-10-14T17:00:12.287-08:00Maybe education should be reversed...first go, do,...Maybe education should be reversed...first go, do, and observe. Then when experienced seek the why of it all.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-19560276549044114242015-10-14T16:54:34.867-08:002015-10-14T16:54:34.867-08:00What a treat to read and then explore the factors ...What a treat to read and then explore the factors and terms above further. Like peeling an onion and discovering what's at the core. <br /><br />Physical geography and climate wasn't in my curriculum (observing nature was I guess) so now it's fun to explore and no longer considered tedious work.<br /><br />Thanks Richard.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-56145659750271393562015-10-14T15:36:08.075-08:002015-10-14T15:36:08.075-08:00This is outstanding Richard! I will be sure to use...This is outstanding Richard! I will be sure to use this example when teaching about radiation budgets. The students' eyes always glaze over when I lecture on Stefan-Boltzmann. This should make it much more relevant.<br /><br />Have you mapped the ESRL OLR data sets? Would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-73719300540851474472015-10-14T15:23:27.277-08:002015-10-14T15:23:27.277-08:00I know that this is an toy example, but the assump...I know that this is an toy example, but the assumption of constant downward longwave infrared bothers me. We know that the the temperature of the troposphere varies greatly during the year and thus the atmospheric portion of longwaves shouldn't be negligible. We also know that July and August have far more clouds (and rain) than other times of the year. While solar shortwave is decreased, the cloud longwave is greatly increased. Do any of these factors create huge differences in your example?Eric Lundellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17914784378747801359noreply@blogger.com