tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post1543963921700270637..comments2024-03-28T07:09:59.093-08:00Comments on Deep Cold: Alaska Weather & Climate: The Climate Below (Ground)Rickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03946704894714514716noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-61186232029194157112013-11-24T00:02:33.487-09:002013-11-24T00:02:33.487-09:00Hi Brian, down in the ham radio shack late and saw...Hi Brian, down in the ham radio shack late and saw your reply. Yes there's nothing like shared Native Alaskan and long term local knowledge. Darwin survival techniques at their best.<br /><br />One topic that's been unaddressed is the potential for and the contribution of subsurface groundwater flow from the upper terrain to the north of the obs station you noted and their temps, versus the Tanana River influence. Complex mixing issues exist no doubt by season, but surely water quality experiments could separate them at various locations an levels below the surface.<br /><br />No easy trail as some would offer.<br /><br />Gary NL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-26924937690023761952013-11-23T18:44:13.342-09:002013-11-23T18:44:13.342-09:00I went through the document you linked to Gary and...I went through the document you linked to Gary and found it absolutely fascinating. Thank you.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-16941133471468525812013-11-23T11:25:49.688-09:002013-11-23T11:25:49.688-09:00Here's a link to the book referenced above in ...Here's a link to the book referenced above in the Jukebox site regarding winter ice conditions on Interior Alaskan rivers...easy read and very informative:<br /><br />http://jukebox.uaf.edu/site7/sites/default/files/documents/Dangerous%20Ice%20web%202013-08-07-A-1.pdf<br /><br />In addition, on that site are links to research documents related to the subject:<br /><br />http://jukebox.uaf.edu/documents/854<br /><br />Knowledge is power, horses have power, so are horses smart?<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-18083799088725794332013-11-22T22:04:41.734-09:002013-11-22T22:04:41.734-09:00There are raw data on that site relative to the to...There are raw data on that site relative to the topic...and at least a few links to principal investigators at the "U". My wife works with one who spends time researching that portion of the experimental forest unit.<br /><br />The important factors have been noted here. I'd like to learn more about the driving elements affecting the observed soil temps, and their proportional contributions.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-33381004428428385402013-11-22T21:32:18.173-09:002013-11-22T21:32:18.173-09:00I like the Jukebox site Gary. The oral history stu...I like the Jukebox site Gary. The oral history stuff is especially fascinating to me.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-64059886776382981122013-11-22T10:25:01.550-09:002013-11-22T10:25:01.550-09:00Further info regarding the winter ice condx in the...Further info regarding the winter ice condx in the particular area of the Tanana River Brian is discussing:<br /><br />http://jukebox.uaf.edu/site7/dangerice<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-17254705021460869502013-11-22T09:33:38.278-09:002013-11-22T09:33:38.278-09:00http://www.lter.uaf.edu/site.cfm?site_pkey=1
My g...http://www.lter.uaf.edu/site.cfm?site_pkey=1<br /><br />My gut feeling is that any locational terrace that proximal to the Tanana River and subject to periodic flooding (1.8-2M above winter low river level) would be influenced by both insolation and the river driven water table below. Surely they have recorded water table temperatures, which by 200 cm down would be real wet. <br /><br />My post Brian isn't intended to provoke or question your reasoning, but rather question the contribution factors of the source(s) of the elevated soil temps noted. <br /><br />For some years we seasonally tracked fish (Burbot, Northern Pike, Grayling, and Chum Salmon) implanted with radio transmitters in that section of the Tanana River via aircraft. The area in general is prone to late Summer flooding, and in winter exhibits areas of open water/discontinuous freezing, and surface flooding/aufeis fields via overflowing river water. The river has great control over that environment year round.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-39700481955054931442013-11-22T06:54:03.328-09:002013-11-22T06:54:03.328-09:00So my previous reply was cut off too soon. Sorry a...So my previous reply was cut off too soon. Sorry about that Gary. I'll try to remember what else was in there.<br /><br />My guess as to the issue of soil moisture source temperature is that it depends on whether the moisture came from above or from below. If it came from above (rain or melted snow) my guess would be that the temperature of the water entering the system would be pretty constant from year to year. If the moisture source was from the subsurface portion of the Tanana River, it could be more variable. The LTER site is very complicated and I my search for soil moisture parameters came up empty. It's surely there somewhere but I cant find it. Presumably at some depth the soil reaches field (moisture) capacity on a permanent basis and then the soil temperature becomes a proxy for the soil moisture temperature. <br /><br />Having said all that, my gut feeling is that the temperature profile is almost entirely a function of the air temperature and the ability of the heat to dissipate in the fall/winter dependent on the insulating properties of the snowpack.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-61835681745725104152013-11-21T23:17:45.887-09:002013-11-21T23:17:45.887-09:00Ok. But was it ultimately an air or water driven t...Ok. But was it ultimately an air or water driven thermal wave? Regardless, soil moisture at the various depths may be a factor. <br /><br />And as you suggest, ice formation and depth along the test site perimeter and elsewhere may be related to either.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-58733780484173503162013-11-21T22:41:46.614-09:002013-11-21T22:41:46.614-09:00The June through October temperatures in Fairbanks...The June through October temperatures in Fairbanks were either the warmest or second warmest on record and that certainly created a thermal wave that is still reflected in the soil temperature profile. The inertia of that wave is slow to transition.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-67081691991233485462013-11-21T22:25:31.417-09:002013-11-21T22:25:31.417-09:00May the water table temps be driving the soil temp...May the water table temps be driving the soil temps at that shallow water table? Think about the latent heat of water and all the influx this very warm summer into various drainages feeding the Tanana River. <br /><br />Good topic. Surely there are water temp profiles available for the lotics and sub-surface wells. And…it was a very delayed freeze up, possibly due to warm water bodies and warm advection.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.com