tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post3568346883064683065..comments2024-03-28T07:09:59.093-08:00Comments on Deep Cold: Alaska Weather & Climate: Cooling from SmokeRickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03946704894714514716noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-6411306786689646282015-06-27T09:15:42.993-08:002015-06-27T09:15:42.993-08:00Hi Brian. I suspect it's an uncommon occurrenc...Hi Brian. I suspect it's an uncommon occurrence but that's unconfirmed. I believe over a short time interval it's still safer to seek water than face fire. <br /><br />The lakes noted are located west of the Kantishna River in old sand dunes...relatively shallow basins with gradual slopes draining rolling hills and surrounding terrain. Such terrain might favor the gradual collection of toxic gasses during periods of poor surface mixing. <br /><br />Moose (and others) learn to treat water as escape habitat when threatened if available. They were discovered during hunting season later in September.<br /><br />The 2002 July-August fires in that location were long lived over several weeks. The Black Spruce and long-lived thick surface duff burned slowly at relatively cool temperatures, unlike quick hot fires earlier in the fire season tend to do. The stink was bad and lung irritation common. The smoke left a thick residue on building and equipment surfaces.<br /><br />Gary NL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-47817574777767334872015-06-27T08:54:40.580-08:002015-06-27T08:54:40.580-08:00Very interesting observation Gary. As a hypothetic...Very interesting observation Gary. As a hypothetical, I have sometimes wondered if there is a benefit to heading to the middle of a lake in a boat if surrounded by fire. The CO2 issue never occurred to me.Climatologist49https://www.blogger.com/profile/04560505931210357679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-67801731696696386642015-06-26T11:07:20.477-08:002015-06-26T11:07:20.477-08:00Here's a link to a general discussion about wi...Here's a link to a general discussion about wildfires, weather, and climate. Note the implied issues affecting health. There's some additional links to information about forest fires:<br /><br />https://www2.ucar.edu/news/backgrounders/wildfires-weather-climate<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-38388749409278003302015-06-26T04:30:54.479-08:002015-06-26T04:30:54.479-08:00Gary, excellent point, by August there is consider...Gary, excellent point, by August there is considerably less solar heating. Perhaps I should revise the analysis to look at smoke's effect on the anomaly rather than absolute value of the surface-850 temperature difference.<br /><br />Very interesting about the low-elevation moose deaths. I would guess that CO2, being heavier than air, built up to toxic concentrations - as can happen in the vicinity of a limnic eruption. Now that I think of it, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.<br />Richard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313902028896263276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-55411191214701093882015-06-25T20:41:26.212-08:002015-06-25T20:41:26.212-08:00I might add that during the Geskamina fire above s...I might add that during the Geskamina fire above several moose died on small low elevation lakes surrounded by terrain and fires. They were likely seeking relief from the fires. <br /><br />The suspicion for a cause of death was a lack of oxygen due to either elevated levels of CO2 (the Bohr Effect), CO poisoning, or a general lack of O2. They died near the water and were't burned by the fires directly.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-53101395013549118562015-06-25T20:33:50.088-08:002015-06-25T20:33:50.088-08:00By August we see longer nights, cooler surface tem...By August we see longer nights, cooler surface temps, and likely less residual heat to promote hours of daily mixing. In early August 2002 three of us cabin owners and four AFS smokejumpers fought a forest fire on a remote lake. Vis would drop below 1/8 mile at night concurrent with cool temps. It took until mid-day for the vis to rise and temps increase. Even the helicopters were grounded at times.<br /><br />GaryNL7Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874712728971005352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-45378986184303132202015-06-25T17:33:49.108-08:002015-06-25T17:33:49.108-08:00Eric, you're right, the pattern hasn't cha...Eric, you're right, the pattern hasn't changed much, so this is a good case study. Here's the 850 mb temperature at 3pm AKST each day for the past week, and the daily surface maximum temperature (note a few soundings are missing):<br /><br />June 17 11.2C 82F<br />June 18 13.0C 83F<br />June 19 (missing) 85F<br />June 20 (missing) 84F<br />June 21 12.4C 79F<br />June 22 13.4C 82F<br />June 23 12.6C 77F<br />June 24 12.8C 70F<br /><br />So with the 850mb temperature essentially unchanged from June 18, yesterday's high was 13F cooler.<br />Richard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313902028896263276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4572286363399496963.post-55019128449970103292015-06-25T13:07:45.250-08:002015-06-25T13:07:45.250-08:00Since the weather pattern hasn't changed drast...Since the weather pattern hasn't changed drastically in the last week, I expect that the 500 and 850 temperatures haven't changed that much. Perhaps you could compare balloon data over the last week. The cool down at lower heights should be apparent but there should be little change at the 500 level. This also might account for the small cooling due to the fact that the smoke is above the 850 level.Eric Lundellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17914784378747801359noreply@blogger.com